Music in the Night (S1, E1)
Season 1, Episode 1
Date of Release: June 18, 2022
Welcome to Simply Vanished, an investigative podcast about missing persons. The show is produced by Trembling Leaf Media in Minneapolis and hosted by civil rights lawyer Josh Newville. Alternating between serial and episodic format, Simply Vanished digs deep to tell the stories of unsolved disappearances. In this first season of the show, Josh dives into a story that hits especially close to home for him—that of Joshua Guimond, a college student at Saint John’s University in Minnesota who disappeared in the middle of the night on Saturday, November 9, 2002.
Today’s episode is the first of the show, so Josh starts out by introducing listeners to himself and the podcast. He explains how, from his formative years, he was shaped and fascinated by missing persons cases. His interest in these cases, along with the inspiration of watching Jacob Wetterling’s case be solved and listening to podcasts like Up and Vanished and FindJodi, prompted him to get involved and try to help see missing persons cases solved. In each bi-weekly episode, listeners will hear updates on the show’s first featured case—including some of the most significant new leads in 20 years.
Moving forward, Josh uses the remainder of the episode to outline the context and timeline surrounding Guimond’s disappearance. Guimond was born in the small town of Maple Lake, Minnesota, and while he was a remarkable young man with active roles in student government and voted “Most Likely to Succeed” by his high school classmates, hardly any of those who knew him are willing to speak about him now. This fact is, in large measure, due to the tensions and complications that have built up over time. There would be so much to gain in the case from open conversation, but for now, we start with revisiting the pieces we know.
Together with his friend Ted Haller (attorney and former television news reporter), Josh runs through the hours leading up to Guimond’s disappearance with the help of information from Guimond’s computer and college friends. Guimond was busy, mainly with coursework, throughout the day before spending the evening with friends. He went to a gathering at another dorm, presumably arriving between 11:15-11:30 and leaving between 11:45-12:00. There is some dispute over whether or not Guimond indicated he had somewhere to be after the gathering, and he was last seen walking in the direction of his own dorm just before midnight. At approximately 2:45 a.m., Guimond’s roommate Nick arrived home and noticed that Guimond was not there. An issue within the timeline, Josh shares, is that Guimond’s computer started playing music at 11:52 p.m., and continued playing and skipping songs until 12:32 a.m.; most likely, this would have required someone to be at the computer pushing buttons throughout that time window.
This timeline sets the foundation for the episodes to come, including the next episode with its focus on incidents at Saint John’s campus around the time of Guimond’s disappearance.
Please rate the show and subscribe on Apple podcasts, and download the Simply Vanished app! You can find more information and resources on our website.
If you have any information about Joshua Guimond, please contact us or the Stearns County sheriff’s Department. You can submit tips anonymously on our website or via our tip line at 415-969-LOST (5678).
Josh Newville: I am 38 years old. I grew up in rural Wisconsin, right on the Minnesota border, very near where Jacob Wetterling was from. In fact, I was six years younger than Jacob. I remember when he went missing. I remember the panic that set in our communities, the horror on the faces of our parents and teachers and community members, as they would tell us about the dangers that lurked in the shadows and amongst strangers. The fear I felt as I would see the missing posters and the suspect sketch drawings that would hang on convenience store doors, and grocery store bulletin boards, and billboards, and light poles, and really anywhere they could put it. I saw Patty Wetterling speak twice as a child.
And I will never forget, 16 years ago, sitting on my bed in my crappy fraternity house, drinking beer out of a can with a friend, while a party is raging downstairs. And we're using my Compaq Presario laptop, that for some reason, weighed 300 pounds and put off the heat of a thousand sons. And we're scouring the internet, looking for every piece of information we can possibly find about Chris Jenkins and this supposed group, called the Smiley Face Killers. A group of men, allegedly traveling the country, throwing college-aged men into bodies of water and making it look like accidental drownings. That's also the first time I ever remember seeing Josh Guimond's name. These are the experiences that shaped millennial men from the upper Midwest. And I think are largely the reason that I have been so fascinated by missing persons cases for really my entire adult life.
In June 2020, I was working from home—like a lot of people. And in order to avoid at home distractions, I was binging podcasts while I was working. I was a little late to the whole listening to podcasts thing. And so, I had just started listening to shows like Serial and In the Dark and The Vanished and Unfound, and so many more. It was really the combination of listening to those shows for the first time and also recalling the work that Joy Baker did together with Jared Scheierl—in basically solving the Jacob Wetterling case—that really got me thinking about how I might be able to take my own investigative experience and maybe help out in some missing persons cases. There are really two podcasts that serve as the primary format or structure inspiration for this show, and that's Up and Vanished and Find Jodi. And I strongly encourage you to listen to both. I had been following a number of missing persons cases from across the country and I felt like if I was going to do this, the one that I should start with should be the one that struck closest to home for me, which was, and is the Josh Guimond case.
Newscaster 1: A student at a Minnesota Catholic college vanished in the middle of the night.
Newscaster 2: …a popular college student who simply vanished.
Newscaster 3: A standout student, the 20-year-old had a bright future ahead.
Newscaster 4: Class president of his Maple Lake High School, voted most likely to succeed by his peers, and planning for a future in politics and law.
Newscaster 3: That all changed November 9th, 2002.
Newscaster 4: Shortly after midnight, those last to see him said he left to take the three-minute walk home. No security cameras, no cell phone.
Nick (roommate): I came home that night and he wasn't there.
Police Investigator: And hasn't been seen or heard from since.
Newscaster 4: And that is essentially all we know about the night Josh Guimond disappeared. The timeline, not exact. The details, still few.
Newscaster 3: Guimond's disappearance would later face extra scrutiny, both for the clergy sex abuse scandal and for the investigators assigned to the case.
Mike Padden: I really feel like the resource of that case file is really important for us to try to figure out, to try to connect the dots.
Newscaster 4: The investigation into Josh's disappearance is ongoing.
Brian Guimond: It can be solved. It's just going to take the right people looking at the right information.
Josh Newville: From Trembling Leaf Media in Minneapolis, this is Simply Vanished. I'm your host, Josh Newville.
Brian Guimond: There used to be three grocery stores in town. Now we don't have any. We’ve got three convenience stores. Oh yeah, not much happening…
Josh Newville: Cute little main street though.
Brian Guimond: Here's that thing that they came out here for. It's in this building, the wine bar where they play vinyl. There's the bookstore, The Book Break.
Josh Newville: Alright, park here?
Brian Guimond: Yeah. Any of these would be fine.
There you are.
Marilyn Groth: Hello. How you doing?
Brian Guimond: Oh, not too bad.
Marilyn Groth: Read that book already?
Brian Guimond: No, no.
Marilyn Groth: Okay.
Josh Newville: Hi, I'm Josh. Nice to meet you.
Marilyn Groth: Hi.
Josh Newville: I'm doing a podcast about Brian's son, Josh.
Marilyn Groth: Oh, my goodness.
Josh Newville: Yeah...
That's Marilyn Groth in 1986. She opened a bookstore in Maple Lake, a small town in central Minnesota. That same year, Brian Guimond and Lisa Cheney moved to Maple Lake with their four-year-old son and only child Joshua Cheney Guimond.
It's hard to believe he'd be 40-years-old, this coming Saturday.
Brian Guimond: A week from today.
Marilyn Groth: Is that right? Oh my.
Brian Guimond: Yeah.
Marilyn Groth: You just kind of remember him from college, high school, and that's it...
Brian Guimond: Well, right…
Josh Newville: Today, June 18th, 2022 is Josh's 40th birthday, but no one will be celebrating with Josh. And it's been a long time since anyone has.
Marilyn Groth: How long has it been?
Brian Guimond: Well, it's going to be 20 years this November.
Marilyn Groth: Oh, okay. Well that's a good time to kind of bring it out again.
Brian Guimond: Yep, so….
Josh Newville: Maple Lake is a quintessentially Midwestern small town. It's the kind of place where everyone knows everyone. The kind of place where I grew up. And so, I was really surprised and saddened when I drove there a few weeks ago and I talked to random people around town, and I couldn't find a single person who even knew Josh's name. This was especially disappointing because for some inexplicable reason, hardly any of Josh's friends, roommates, classmates, or mentors will say a peep about him. I mentioned this while visiting Josh's parents last Saturday, and Brian told me to hop in the car.
Brian Guimond: And I said, "Well, Marilyn will probably remember him." I said, "I was just in there earlier this week."
Marilyn Groth: Yeah… I thought, “boy, he's a fast reader.”
Josh Newville: Marilyn told stories of Josh as a child. Him getting confirmed, playing musical instruments, singing in her church choir. It was really nice.
Marilyn Groth: I have a memory of Josh playing his slide trombone, is that what he played? And with this Charlie, who's a husband of the minister... and was it Christmas or something?
Brian Guimond: Oh, now that you mentioned that…
Josh Newville: You see Josh Guimond, wasn't your average kid. He was quite simply extraordinary. And he most definitely does not deserve to be forgotten.
Josh Guimond: To have the Junior and senior high dance together, you have to kick everybody who's under 17 out by 9:30. So they can be home by 10.
Council President: What time's the curfew, Josh?
Josh Guimond: 10 o'clock.
Council President: 10 o'clock?
Josh Guimond: 10 o'clock for people under 17. And as you know, 90% of our student body at Maple Lake is under 17, including myself.
Josh Newville: That's Josh at just 16-years-old, single handedly petitioning the city council to amend the teen curfew law.
Josh Guimond: I called up Annandale, Howard Lake, Waverly, Big Lake and South Haven, and had them send me copies of their curfew law. And then I noticed that three out of those five cities had exceptions in their laws for school, religious, and other functions. So, I thought that it would make it easier if Maple Lake was to adopt said exception.
Josh Newville: And here's the thing. He wasn't just successful. He blew them away.
City Council members: Excellent.
You got competition in town, Nate.
Josh Guimond: I learned everything I know from him over there.
City Council members: Oh, come on.
Don't tell us.
One of your mock trial fellas, Nate?
Nate: The best. One of the best.
Council President: Well, first of all, I just want to take this opportunity to acknowledge you. This is...
City Council Member: Well spoken.
Council President: Yeah, incredible. Very, very impressed. I didn't say we were going to do anything.
I certainly am impressed. How old are you, Josh?
Josh Guimond: 16.
Council President: You're 16? When I was 16, I don't think I would've had the guts to go approach the Duluth city...
Josh Newville: And in terms of achieving success through hard work, Josh was just getting started. He was his high school class president. Vice president of his student council for four years. He easily could have been president of that too, but he wanted the VP spot because that also made him the student representative to the school board. As a sophomore, he got the high school mock trial program off the ground. In February 1999, he won a seat as a junior page at the Minnesota House of Representatives. And here's Josh giving the closing to his high school commencement speech.
Josh Guimond: Fellow graduates, the road ahead is a long and difficult one. Fortunately, we've been very well equipped to celebrate the conclusion of the last chapter of the first volume of our lives. Today is truly ours. We've passed. We're going to graduate. And we are the future. We won't let you down. Thank you.
Josh Newville: These are just some of Josh's accomplishments—before he even started college. Although today's episode is primarily focused on the timeline surrounding Josh's disappearance, in future episodes, you'll learn more about him, meet more of his family and see for yourself why his high school class voted him most likely to succeed.
Daniel Gunnarsson: (singing "The Rivers Told Me Lies")
Josh Newville: On June 1st, 2020, I sent a Facebook message to a page named, “The Hunt for Josh, the Joshua Guimond Story.” In it, I explained that I was interested in producing a multi-part investigative podcast centered on Josh's disappearance. Seven minutes later, I received a response from a man named Justin Tholl.
Justin Tholl: Hi, you've reached Justin. Just leave a message after the tone and I'll get back to you. Thanks.
Josh Newville: Hey Justin, it's Josh. You're not going to believe this...
These days, I suspect he regrets responding to that message. I have been amateur investigating the Josh Guimond case for less than six months. Justin Tholl has been at it for more than six years. He's an independent filmmaker and we've combined our investigative efforts. His research skills are amazing and he's done a phenomenal amount of work. And in his own words, and perhaps those of his family, he has an obsession with solving this case.
Working with him has been incredible. We've put our heads together, approached the case in slightly different ways. Shared our findings with law enforcement. And are about to unveil some of the biggest developments in the Josh Guimond case in 20 years.
This is a great time to jump in and mention that for every fact and assertion made on this podcast, we make every effort to corroborate that information using independent and verifiable sources, cross referencing data where possible. However, some of the information we are relying upon has been reported by individuals and is not always verifiable. This is an active and ongoing investigation. If any of the information you hear on this podcast concerns you in any way whatsoever. If you believe any of the information is incorrect, even if the detail seems small, please call us at 612-439-3646 or visit our website at simplyvanished.com.
Ted Haller: Hello? Hello? 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, check, check.
Josh Newville: That's my friend, Ted Haller. He is also an attorney, but unlike me, he has actual experience in broadcast journalism. I sat down with him on Monday night to talk about the timeline and potential explanations in Josh's disappearance.
Ted Haller: I wanted to ask you, because it's almost two decades since he vanished. This was back in 2002, which creates challenges. So obviously memories fade, evidence gets lost, but we also have to remember how different technology was back then. People didn't all have cell phones, no one had a smartphone, obviously, which could have created some breadcrumbs of what happened. So how does that pose any challenges to try to go back and use technology to maybe figure out what was going on?
Josh Newville: Well, it's interesting. I think in some ways the technology was more available to use than they realized at the time. And so for example, Josh had a computer. I mean, it wasn't a fancy new MacBook or anything like that. It was an older PC. And I think he first got it in like '99 or 2000 or something, but he had a computer nonetheless. And that computer, as it turns out is a treasure trove of information. But in 2002, when he went missing, I don't think law enforcement or most people really thought of a computer or electronic type evidence as critical valuable evidence. They were still kind of in an older mindset about what sort of evidence was crucial. So, Josh didn't have a cell phone, no. And there are other kinds of evidence, like phone card evidence and things, but certainly we don't have the GPS tracking the tower pings or anything like that make these sorts of cases easier to solve today.
Ted Haller: Yeah, because today, college friends and adult friends, we sit around on our own smartphones and laugh and share videos, but they did the same thing back then only they would just kind of take turns using someone's computer to look at stuff.
Josh Newville: And Josh did exactly that with his friends. In fact, on the day that Josh went missing, that's one of the activities that he was engaged in with his friends.
Ted Haller: So Josh goes missing in the early hours of November 10th. So, really November 9th is the day that's leading into his disappearance.
Josh Newville: That's right.
Ted Haller: So a lot of scrutiny on what happened that day, November 9th, I assume. Every minute of that day is probably crucial. I mean, he wakes up, is that a Saturday, November 9th?
Josh Newville: Yep.
Ted Haller: So on a college campus, Saturday's a fun day. Lots of who knows what's going to happen. It's a weekend. Do you know when he wakes up and kind of roughly, what does he do?
Josh Newville: From 10:30 AM until 12:30 PM, Josh researched Alexander Hamilton in preparation for a paper he was writing for his history class. During that same timeframe, his computer also registered activity on AOL Instant Messenger. This messaging activity is believed to be with his ex-girlfriend, Katie. Josh went to the library between 12:30 and 1:00 PM to check out books relating to his history paper. He returned to his dorm at 12:57 PM. Josh then continued using his computer to work on his history paper until approximately 2:30 PM.
During the next hour, Josh checked his email and searched online for seasonal employment near his hometown. At 3:46 PM, Josh visited the college movie station website and viewed the movie schedule for that day. Just 11 minutes later at 3:57 PM, Josh badged into his dorm room using his electronic access card. It is unknown where he went in that short interim. During the 4:00 PM hour, Josh worked on a document in preparation for a budget request meeting for the pre-law society that was scheduled the next day. At 4:54 PM, Josh performed a Yahoo search for the movie Brewster's Millions. Josh then had dinner with one or more of his friends, including Nick, during the 5 or 6 PM hours.
Ted Haller: And eventually he does what most young college men are going to do. He meets up with friends, right?
Josh Newville: Yeah. He had a friend come over around seven...
After dinner, at approximately 6:40 PM, Josh's friend, Alex joined him in his dorm room. There, they began listening to music, drinking beer, generally socializing and using the web to search for things such as information about beer, Brandy and brew pubs. At approximately 8:30 PM, Josh invited Alex and Nick outside to smoke celebratory cigars. These were cigars he purchased the weekend before at a mock trial tournament, as was his custom. Nick politely declined the cigar, but talked with them for a few minutes before leaving to hang out with Josh's ex, Katie, whom Nick had become friends with the year before. Josh and Katie had dated for five years, meeting in high school, going to college together, and breaking up approximately one to two months prior to his disappearance. During the 10 o'clock hour, Josh and Alex's friend, Greg, joined them in Josh's dorm room. There, they continued to drink beer, socialize and use the internet. They looked up sports scores, comedy websites, and funny things in other students’ shared drives.
Ted Haller: And I know this is really important, so maybe let's take this in bites. So, the main event of the night is some get together at Nate's at a different dorm. So how would Josh get to that dorm from his? How far apart are they? How long is the walk? Is there obstacles in the way?
Josh Newville: Yeah, so we actually put up an aerial photograph with kind of some markings on the website to help listeners get a sense for this. And it's about a five minute walk. I actually just walked it last week.
Ted Haller: We know he gets to this get together. Do we know approximately what time he arrives?
Josh Newville: There is a lack of clarity surrounding the exact time that Alex, Greg, and Josh jointly made the five-minute walk from their Maur house dormitory to their friend Nate's dorm at Metten Court in the Flynntown area. There are some reports that they left at 11:00 PM and others that they left at 11:30. A wrinkle in the timeline is that Josh badged into his dorm room at 11:06 PM. There is no explanation for this reentry. Perhaps he forgot something. Perhaps he let someone in. We simply do not know. Based on all available data, the best estimate for the time they arrived at Nate's dorm is between 11:15 and 11:30 PM.
Ted Haller: So, do we know what these kids are doing at this get together?
Josh Newville: Yeah, they were talking and playing some Texas hold'em, and that's about it. I mean-
Ted Haller: This is not some wild frat rager we're talking about.
Josh Newville: Right. This was a group of approximately all told, 10 people. And most of them, Josh knew. Several of them were in his core group of friends. There were a couple people that he didn't know, but they knew other people there. And it wasn't like the door was open and random people were coming in and out or anything.
Ted Haller: At some point Josh leaves, right?
Josh Newville: Sometime between, from what we understand, 11:45 and midnight. And my sense is that it was a little closer to midnight, but sometime between 11:45 and midnight, Josh gets up and leaves. And there's some dispute amongst people about whether he says anything or whether he just gets up and leaves. At least one person in particular recalls him somehow implying that he had somewhere to be and another person, or at least one other person, doesn't recall him saying anything at all. And that's totally conceivable that both of those things could be true. He may have said something loud enough for only a few people to hear, and others maybe didn't hear anything.
Ted Haller: Yeah. It'd be almost weird if he made some giant announcement to the entire room.
Josh Newville: Right.
Ted Haller: But what is really important probably is going to be, if he did tell someone he had somewhere to be, that's going to be pretty crucial.
Josh Newville: Right. And it doesn't sound like he told anyone explicitly that he had anywhere to be. One of the party attendees, his name is Eric. We're not going to provide last names. And when those names do come up, we're going to bleep them out. But Eric, one of the attendees, if you will, he does specifically recall Josh implying that he had somewhere to be. The way that Eric described it is that there was something about the way that Josh said he needed to go that it strongly suggested he had somewhere to be. That's all we know. And that perception could have been wrong. That perception could have been dead on. Right? We just don't know.
Ted Haller: So, they see Josh leave, right? The people at the get together, they see-
Josh Newville: Some do.
Ted Haller: Some see him leave.
Josh Newville: Yep. And some assume that he's just leaving to go the bathroom. Some assume he's heading back to his dorm. I think there was some uncertainty until he had been gone for a bit whether he had actually left, for some people.
Ted Haller: Are there any accounts of anyone seeing him that night walking somewhere in between the two buildings?
Josh Newville: There is. So present day, I should point out that if you look at a current map of Saint John's University, I was just there this past week. They actually built a bridge directly over the lake that didn't exist then. And likewise, there were a couple dorm buildings that were older, kind of maybe sixties style. I looked at them and thought, “energy crisis.” So I’m guessing maybe from that time, that are now gone now. And they put up these massive, new, very nice dorms that are right on the lake. And they weren't there before. But where those dorms that are now gone were, someone who knew Josh well, very well in fact. She reportedly saw Josh walk behind those dorms. And so, this would've been on the path, leaving Metten Court, headed towards the roadway to walk back towards his own dorm potentially, or somewhere else possibly. But that direction. She saw him leave just before midnight from what I understand
Ted Haller: Is that probably the last time he was seen?
Josh Newville: That's correct. So, that does sound to be the last confirmed sighting of Josh. Yes.
Ted Haller: He obviously has these friends who live in the same building as his. Some next to him, some above and below. They get back at some point that night or in the early hours, do they see his room? Do they see his door open, anything like that?
Josh Newville: Josh had five roommates in his dorm. Maur house number 105. The dorm had four floors. The bottom floor contained the common spaces and two bedrooms occupied each of the top three floors. Nick and Josh each had a bedroom on the fourth, very top floor. Nick arrived home at approximately 2:45 and has publicly stated that Josh was not home at that time. Josh's roommate, Greg, arrived home just prior to 3:00 AM. And it is not known whether he knew one way or another as to Josh's whereabouts. Josh had three additional roommates. We have confirmed that one was gone the entire weekend. And presently it is not clear as to whether the other two were home at that time.
Ted Haller: Another weird thing you told me that gave me chills, and I'm not sure there's much to it. So you can tell me, is that Josh had a computer and his computer was not just playing music, but skipping songs after he had gone missing.
Josh Newville: So this really messes with the timeline. And this is also something that is brand new and has only really been learned in the past year. And we have Justin Tholl to thank for this discovery, but Josh had a music player on his computer, a musicmatch player, and Josh's music player started playing music at 11:52 PM. A song was skipped at 11:53. Another song was skipped, and another song was skipped, all up until 12:32 AM.
Ted Haller: Which suggests someone's at the computer hitting a button, right?
Josh Newville: From everything that I've been able to determine thus far in talking to computer experts, it is highly likely, yes. That someone had to manually press the play button and manually press those skip buttons.
On the next episode of Simply Vanished.
Disguised Voice 1: There was some talk on the campus of high alert.
Disguised Voice 2: Right when I got to that turn, one guy grabbed me and the other guy pushed me in the back. And I yelled for my buddies, and they were gone when I turned around.
Disguised Voice 1: It was late at night and he's quite sure that there were four people in the car, that was following him.
Ted Haller: So you’ve got weird stuff on Josh's computer. You've got the monk abuse scandal. You've got strange men following men on campus. Oddities in the woods, some other stuff, including chat rooms. How are you going to chase down all these leads?
Josh Newville: It's sort of been like drinking out of a fire hose, trying to also do my regular job and do this. And one of the struggles in this case is that there has just been... and this happens in small towns in cases like this, from what I understand, no one wants to talk. And between the history with Saint John's and the criticism that's been levied at the Stearns County Sheriff's department and Saint. John's, and then some of the anger that's bubbled up between some members of Josh's family and some friends and stuff over the years, it's gotten to the point that very few people are willing to talk about this case.
And that's too bad because the lack of communication in 20 years, is making it hard to sift through all of these pieces of information and all of these potential explanations. There are so many questions that could be answered if people would just talk. And I am stunned by just the amount of silence around in this case. I just, can't imagine—like I said, I identify with Josh so much—I am truly just frightened at the idea that I could go missing, and this would be the same sort of collective response, this collection of—you know, whether you want to call it bureaucratic incompetence, or factional sort of differences, or selfish interests, or fear or whatever. All of these things that have prevented people from working collaboratively together, talking, communicating, to help finally put an end to this case.
Ted Haller: It's like, if you could get all these people together and put them in one giant room and just talk it out, I imagine you could have so much new discoveries just from something like that.
Josh Newville: And that's kind of what the goal of this podcast really is. I mean, if you can't get everyone together in a room—and you can't, right? I mean at this point, not only are there practical reasons for that, but there's just all of this—years of fear and resentment, and whatever. Maybe this discussion and having people on to the extent that they're willing to be on, and maybe talking about some anonymous tips that they share. You know, we set up a tip line on our website, it's 612-439-3646, I believe. And people can call and leave voicemails and they can tell us if they want them to be anonymous. They can also email us. They can submit anonymous messages on our website without having to record or call anything. And whether it's active participation by being on the podcast or whether it's through something more informal like that, or frankly, whether it's just simply picking up the phone and calling the Stearns County Sheriff's department and giving them the tip.
We really just need communication here. And Stearns County is keeping it pretty close to the chest. Different departments play cold cases differently. And Stearns County is one that they really don't collaborate a lot. They don't provide or share a lot of information with others. And I think we should respect that decision, but simultaneously do what we can to help advance their investigation. And that is going to mean talking. This answer of, "Oh, well investigators are doing it, they're taking care of it." Part of the problem that the investigators are having, is that no one's talking and because no one's talking, they're not just not calling them, they're not talking to other people. They're not talking to each other. And so, people aren't able to connect the dots to put things together. And that's really frustrating.
Ted Haller: Yeah. I get the argument why investigators don't want too much information to come out because that can hurt them and their abilities to interrogate people. But my God, when two decades go by, maybe you need something out there just to sort of grease the wheel and get stuff coming in.
Josh Newville: Yeah. And to their credit, I sat down with detectives and advised them about this podcast, about our intentions to cover many of these leads, and these potential explanations for what happened to Josh. And their response was great. The more people that can know about Josh's case, and hear about it and talk about it, the more likely we are to get somewhere.
Daniel Gunnarsson: (singing "The Rivers Told Me Lies")
Josh Newville: Thank you so much for listening to the very first episode of Simply Vanished. I can't thank you enough. It's been quite a journey trying to get this off the ground. And really, the amount of support I've had has just been incredible. Our next episode will come out on Monday, June 27th, and it will be biweekly on Mondays thereafter. Although, stay tuned for potential bonus episodes in the interim weeks. Please rate us. Subscribe at Apple Podcasts. And additionally, watch the Apple and Google app stores for the Simply Vanished app, which should be released within the next week or so. Both on the website at simplyvanished.com and via the app, you can listen to the show, play armchair detective with others on our message board, and find more information about each missing person that we cover. Additionally, there will be links to things such as the family sites and official GoFundMe pages. For example, there is an active GoFundMe page for the Josh Guimond case for his family, for investigative purposes—for which you can find a link on our website right now. Again, thank you so much. We'll talk with you soon.